Santayana and Furry-dom

[Simo]

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
    George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905

I have always been most interested in history (it was my favorite subject, after science) and am the type who would read some dusty tome about WW I over a new novel. This interest has, of course, extended to Furry-dom.

Lately, I have become aware of several problems related to ignorance of the history of our subculture. Here are some random quotes I pulled off some other Furry forums.

The furry fandom has (for as far as I think) originated from bestiality. The morphs where just a way to make animals more (excuse my foul language) fuckable.

Would you like to see a reporter at a con interview this person?

Yes there is a freedom of choice but you still cannot mix spirituality with furry. Those who happen to be both and just Furries who also happen to be spiritual not "spiritual Furries," there is no such thing.

This person doesn't realize that this issue was settled nine years ago, after a long and nasty flame war on alt.fan.furry between the "Fans" who believed that Furry was just about the anthros, and the "Lifestylers" who believed that Furry could mean more. This almost cost us our most creative and innovative affiliates, as it was the Lifestylers -- the Otherkin, Were, Therian, and Furry Spiritualiats who were drawing on their faiths and connecting with the traditional shamanistic religions for artistic inspiration to take Furry beyond the same old comic art serials. It was they who created new Furry artforms: fursuiting and role playing, for example.

Is it a good thing to recrack that old fault line?

On yet another forum, another poster did not know who the Burned Furs were and what they did.

Now, I'm not sure what can be done about this, nor am I convinced that anything can even be done about this. Santayana may have been too much the Polly Anna, in that he assumed that remembering the past would be a remedy against repeating it. Or that each new generation will not accept advice from the older, and may have to learn for themselves.

Although I can ask one thing: at least read A Chronology of Furry Fandom

Thoughts anyone?

[Arrowhead]

Finally something we have in common 

I fully agree with you that history of the furry fandom is a very important thing to learn about. It's unfortunate that whenever I even skipped on this idea elsewhere people threw it out the window by saying "this is a fandom, not a high-school class," or something along those lines. Basically I got the general feeling that people don't want to learn or don't think it's neccesary to learn about the history of the fandom to avoid embarrassing moments or spread misinformation.

Blessed Be,
~Arrowhead~

[Sylvine]

*instantly scared away by all the text*

...should be the reaction of about everyone. I don't have the time atm ( still have to read 2 rule books on shadowrun  ), but I'll definately read into it as soon as I've got the time; It bugs me that I don't really know much about the fandom I'm in the middle ( well, more like on the side ^^) of. Anyway: Filtering the text for significant info and re-writing it in a nutshell could probably help. As for forums... Signatures with links and fixed topics are sure to catch at least a little bit attention ( which would be still better than none at all, right?). Mods should recognize the nescessity ( omg, I still don't know how You spell the damned word, and I'll probably never learn it ) of fixing such a topic, I belive.

~Sylv

[Simo]

It's unfortunate that whenever I even skipped on this idea elsewhere people threw it out the window by saying "this is a fandom, not a high-school class," or something along those lines.

Goes to the general anti-intellectualism of American culture. The "jock" is the high school hero, whereas the Honour Society winner is not. This is unfortunate.

Basically I got the general feeling that people don't want to learn or don't think it's neccesary to learn about the history of the fandom to avoid embarrassing moments or spread misinformation.

All too many fail to realize that they not only joined a fandom, but a community. They fail to realize that they have a "civic duty" to that community to at least not cause others in that community embarrassment by doing or saying something stupid. Assholeishness is also something that's all too prevalent amoung the public-at-large.

t bugs me that I don't really know much about the fandom I'm in the middle ( well, more like on the side ^^) of.

Good for you. Unforch, folks like you are all too uncommon (in RL as well as in Furry).

As for forums... Signatures with links and fixed topics are sure to catch at least a little bit attention ( which would be still better than none at all, right?).

OK, good idea. I'll start since I really don't need to "whore out" my own site in sigs.

[TheDisreputableDog]

I must admit I was one of the ones arguing with Arrowhead when he brought this up on Gaia, and I also must admit that I don't know about the things you mentioned. However, I was mostly arguing to get him to define his position more clearly--I didn't quite understand it and sometimes it takes an argument  to define a standpoint (I'm that way myself). That, and there's no point in preaching to the choir.

I totally agree, though. I'm new to this so my opinions may not count for much, but I want to learn all the things I don't know. Like Sylvine said, it bugs me that I don't know. It also bugs me that before getting into being furry I did research on the definition of furry, but I didn't find anything about shifts and evolutions in the furry community--I must not have been looking hard enough, and I apologize.

[Simo]

It also bugs me that before getting into being furry I did research on the definition of furry, but I didn't find anything about shifts and evolutions in the furry community--I must not have been looking hard enough, and I apologize.

Don't be so hard on yourself. There are no readily available on-line resources for this. I had to find out myself by going through Internet caches of those old Usenet posts. These days, there aren't very many around who are familiar with Usenet, or alt.fan.furry, or the other Furry Usenet newsgroups. If you don't know, even Google won't help you.

[Arrowhead]

It also bugs me that before getting into being furry I did research on the definition of furry, but I didn't find anything about shifts and evolutions in the furry community--I must not have been looking hard enough, and I apologize.

Don't be so hard on yourself. There are no readily available on-line resources for this. I had to find out myself by going through Internet caches of those old Usenet posts. These days, there aren't very many around who are familiar with Usenet, or alt.fan.furry, or the other Furry Usenet newsgroups. If you don't know, even Google won't help you.

This is way too true. Not to mention I haven't a clue on how to use a newsgroup.

Blessed Be,
~Arrowhead~

[Simo]

This is way too true. Not to mention I haven't a clue on how to use a newsgroup.

These days, newsgroups are sort of obsolete. I'll have to look into it myself.

[Raef Wolfe]

I myself am only somewhat aware of the burned fur movement, and still have no idea where furry originated from...sooo, instead of whining about how no one knoes, how's about teaching an interested fur a little something? ;)

[Arrowhead]

I myself am only somewhat aware of the burned fur movement, and still have no idea where furry originated from...sooo, instead of whining about how no one knoes, how's about teaching an interested fur a little something? ;)

The furry fandom basically started as an off-shoot of the sci-fi fandom. The man Mark Merlino, with some help of another (I forget who) basically started the whole deal. I think I may have met the guy once, been to the Prancing Skiltaire a couple of times for after-parties. If you want a slightly outdated reference of important dates and events, go to:

http://www.arclight.net/~yarf/YARF_Chronology.html

Blessed Be,
~Johnny~

[Simo]

^^^^^^^

That would be Rod O'Riley.

[Roarey Raccoon]

Is it a good thing to recrack that old fault line?

Yep, it certainly is :F.

If you think about it, what exactly is an argument? Well you have, typically, two conflicting sides with a set of beliefs that differ from eachother in a way that both sides refuse to ignore. People seek to validate their beliefs by asserting themselves in conflict, because nobody wants to admit that their beliefs are wrong. So if your side wins, your side is correct. It's because of this that we need to retrace steps in hope of making further progress towards reality; without testing the foundations of our own belief systems, we can never progress anywhere.

Even in scientific debate, which requires evidence, logical and critical thinking etc, the debates are always heated and often take entirely new directions. For example, the existence of schizophrenia as a syndrome, something which many people have been diagnosed with since it was introduced. A clinical psychologist, Mary Boyle, however, argued against the existence of schizophrenia and actually illustrated that it's all a heap of bollocks!

If you don't keep testing our values and our beliefs then the world will remain static; it is because of conflict that we get changes. I'm all for big internet conflicts, because nobody gets killed.

You can't stop history repeating itself, because new generations have to learn things for themselves. What you CAN do, however, is provide your own knowledge, experience and information in the new conflict; there will be a side that wants to listen to you, especially if it helps them argue in favour of their own beliefs.

Meh, that's what I think at any rate :3.